Alejandro Viñao: Khan Variations (2001)
Isabel Urrutia: Mara Mara (2002)
Seyko Itoh: Sheep of Ilinks (2022)
Alice Hoi-ching Yeung: Without mirror... (2022) | commissioned by PROJECT21st in 2022
Could you share your collaborative process with the composer? Why did you put together these four pieces of work from an artist’s perspective?
Sabrina Ma: Let me start with Alice Yeung’s without mirror…. The critical process of our collaboration is the idea of creating a work utilising video as a medium. The work is tailor-made for video instead of a live performance. When Alice was composing, she also considered whether the performer should look at the audience in a particular angle when performing live. Therefore, she wrote instructions at some points on her score such as “open the mouth and stare with shock”. It is one of the key idioms of this work. During the creative process I specified with Alice the musical instruments I wanted to use. Some percussion instruments are tonal, for example, marimba and vibraphone. At the same time, some are more abstract. There are objects that fewer people see as percussion instruments and listen to them seriously. I told Alice I had some cans, Indian handbells, and thunder sheets. I also told her about YouTube’s Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response (ASMR). We discussed how to integrate and reference pop culture. The final outcome of this work is full of potential. It achieves the effect I expect – to create a piece of music that can only be appreciated in video format. If we perform this work live, it will be totally different. The piece employed video editing techniques, creating some effects that can only be achieved in a video. The other explanation for its potential is if Alice and I had to investigate face-to-face how to perform it live one day, I believe it would have a unique theatrical effect. If it is performed live, we may need to invite a musical theatre director or dramaturg to explore how to arrange it. There are many sections in this piece of music. Some instruments are played simultaneously and cannot be handled by a pair of hands. Making use of video technology makes something impossible in live performance possible. All in all, this is a very poetic composition.
This work has also raised the question of the identity of a live performer. As a musician, interpreting music is my responsibility. I have to exploit the limitations and possibilities of my body to perform different pieces. But for a work written on purpose for video, besides performance, it also involves editing, overdubbing, post-production, etc., to realise the composer’s vision. When I received the score, I had to familiarise myself with it and communicate with the third party – the filming crew. As a musician who is used to perform live, this was a challenge for me. There were doubts, too. When I performed this piece, I broke through my boundaries – firstly, the filming was taken place at my home, and secondly, I had to exhibit my face and my expression.
This reminds me of Glenn Gould, the pianist. He ceased giving live performance after midlife and focused on working in the studio. He made use of recording technology to record music section by section and edit them together. At that time, many people saw it as a trick, but he believed that it was one way of interpretation. These recordings later become classics. In addition, it may be a pandemic phenomenon, like in the early period of COVID-19, the Zoom choir, ensembles or the one-person performance in which one performer recorded all voices and edited them to form a piece. without mirror… share a similar spirit, but not as apparent as that of the one-person choir. Director Sander Houtkruijer manipulates the camera to hint at the overlapping sounds. We can imagine that if it is performed live, besides you, the one who produces the video is also one of the performers that need to interpret the score with you.
The work has ASMR elements, and Alice highlighted the uniqueness of every element. When I received the score, I had to explain the contents to the filming crew bar by bar. The successful visualisation of the work relied heavily on the filming crew. Although they cannot read music, they understand what I have to do and the instructions in each bar.
In the video, some shots focus on your face, sometimes on a cup or something else. Are they filmed at the same time or filmed separately then edited together?
It was filmed separately at first. For example, we performed one page of the score five times with five different angles and then edited them together. The idea of making the video in my home allows us, as musicians, to reflect on what we can do under the pandemic. The overall design of this work is for everything to happen in my not-so-spacious room. This video is also a one-to-one conversation between the director and me. There is another conversation between the composer and me. It is a piece requiring a lot of communication. Communication is of the utmost importance throughout the process.
As you described, this work seems like a trio rather than a piece for traditional solo percussion. You have mentioned that you positioned yourself as a musician focusing on live performance. This video project was induced by the pandemic when we could not bring musicians, including you, to Hong Kong. When you got the invitation from us for a production of video composition, how did you decide on the repertoire for it?
When I received your invitation, you said you would like to record something rarely or never been recorded. Isabel Urrutia’s Mara Mara is a piece I started performing many years ago. Some of the sections sound like improvisation. As a musician, I regularly collaborate with composers for new works, but there are also pieces I play time after time. Every performer probably has their own few pieces they keep playing every now and then. When we become more mature, the interpretation seems to become a bit different. Mara Mara is this type of work that allows performers to unleash their quality.
Can you talk about Sekyo Itoh’s Sheep of Ilinks? It is also a very distinctive composition with the favour of Morton Feldman concentrating on certain elements. It is not scratching the surface but digging deep to the bottom. It is a very successful piece. You and Sekyo Itoh form a duo, right?
Yes. We are still exploring our way forward. Sheep of Ilinks is a duet for piano and percussion with Sekyo on the piano. Starting from the substances of vibraphone and piano, she would like to combine the sound of both by experimenting with their materials and hamming actions.
Is that a commissioned work or purely a creative impetus?
This is not a commissioned work. When I received your invitation, it was about half-completed. We have not fixed the première date or other performance arrangements at that time. When I learned about the video production, I immediately decided that it should be included in the video.
Then how about Mara Mara? Did you practise it for a long time? Many performers practise Bach’s Preludes and Fugues since they were young and have different interpretations in their different stages of life, like seeing the many creative periods of themselves. Do you think Mara Mara has these characteristics?
You’re right. It was 2011 when I first learned to play this work during my postgraduate study at Karlsruhe University of Music. For many years I have been keeping in contact with composer Isabel Urrutia. I inform her whenever I perform her piece. Undoubtedly, I have surpassed my past self in this recording.
Does Alejandro Viñao’s Khan Variations play the same role as Mara Mara, signifying the growth of yourself?
I started practising Khan Variations simultaneously with Mara Mara. It is a piece that I play from time to time. I discover a new way whenever I perform it, like exploring how to present a clearer structure, etc. If you investigate Kahn Variations, Mara Mara and Sheep of Ilinks together, you will find them almost like themes and variations. I prefer works that can display their logic and structure.
The three pieces sound delicate rather than the usual boisterous percussion works. There are intimate feelings that need to be sensed closely. For example, in Khan Variations for solo marimba, the piece seems to demand audiences to hear the textual gradation created by the performer using meticulous techniques. Alice’s work accommodating ASMR allows people to look at the delicate side of percussion. The chosen repertoire fits the video format for online sharing perfectly. It will become tiny if performed in a grand concert hall. Through the cameras and microphones, the video captured the details for close-up appreciation, which are very appealing. The interludes between pieces add extra intimacy, unlike other cold concert archives. This video is full of personal touches.
When talking about touches, I am not familiar with feng shui wuxing (the five elements), but I am sensitive to different substances. In this video, there are wood, metal and other materials. If I play the marimba throughout the video, I think there is too much wood. If I play the vibraphone only, too much of it makes you dizzy.
That’s very humanistic! I think the programme is just right. It comes with two marimba pieces with exquisite textual and tonal gradation and then the vibraphone, which immediately brings freshness.
It was exactly what we considered when we discussed the order of the programme!
When we talked about without mirror… you mentioned that it was a challenge for you as a live performer. However, during the pandemic, I believe that you inevitably make more videos. So, after over two years, do you have any new perspectives or positioning regarding your performance and your identity as a musician?
Without the invitation from Project21st, I would not have thought about working on a video project related to ASMR at my home. As a musician performing in live concerts, I realise I can also do well in video recording. To me, it is a kind of advancement. Moreover, performers are not confined to those who play on stage. Artists can also perform at home. Using the items found in my home to perform is part of the creative concept and the arts. The video production has changed my perspective on performances significantly. I have been unsure about social media like YouTube. The main reason is that I am afraid I am not as good as others on the platform. I believe no one wants their works to gain no views on an open platform where everybody can upload their work. Producing this video, bit by bit, I reduce my bias toward online platforms. The pandemic has turned my original live performance into video production, and many arts forms have also turned online. It makes me reflect on the state of being an artist. Artists would love to do things they are passionate about every day when they wake up, like drawing, practising, and dancing. As a percussionist, how could I continue doing the things I am passionate about when I have no musical performance or am even unable to go to the practice room? I believe that it is a basic need for many artists. I think this spirit can be transformed into what Alice is experimenting with in her work. We constantly search for methods to maintain an artist’s primary need during the pandemic. Such need is not only to perform for many audiences – this is only the secondary need. My fundamental needs are “I cannot help but play” and “I need to play.” This is the attitude artists should take. Besides performing, I start to think about how to record the creative process. This is something I have never thought about before. I have also not imagined turning my home into a performing venue, playing like a musician normally does on stage. During the pandemic, the internet becomes a network. It is invaluable that when performers need a platform, the internet performs the role and ignites new forms of artistic performances.
可否分享與作曲家的合作過程？作為藝術家的角度，為何會把這四首作品放在一起？
馬淑慧：讓我先從楊凱晴 (Alice Yeung) 的作品《without mirror...》開始。我跟她的合作，最關鍵的程序是，我們想創作一首作品，是能夠利用錄像作為媒介，為錄像而度身訂造的，不是為了預備一場現場演出。在她構思的時候，也有想到在現場演出時，演出者是否會在某些位置會望觀眾？於是在她的樂譜中，有些位置她所寫的指示是：在這處要望鏡頭，並且表現驚嚇，這個是這首樂曲關鍵的作曲手法。在創作過程中，我有跟她說明有哪些樂器我想用的。在敲擊樂中，一些樂器是有調性的，如木琴、顫音琴，同時又有些比較抽象、較少人會把那些東西當成敲擊樂器而認真聽的物件。於是我跟Alice說，我有些罐頭、印度鈴、有雷片。另外也跟她提到YouTube的ASMR，研究如何在這首作品中融入和借鑑pop culture。這首作品最後出來的效果我認為很有潛質，成就到我想做的效果，錄製一首只是能以錄像方式來欣賞的作品。如果要現場演繹這首作品，效果就會很不一樣。這首作品利用了錄像編輯的技術，創造了些只能在錄像才看到的效果。另一個原因我認為這首作品很有潛質是，若有天我與Alice要面對面再去鑽研現場演繹這首作品，我相信會有很獨特的劇場效果。如果要現場演繹，屆時或需請位音樂劇場導演或劇場構作一同研究如何處理。作品中有很多段落，有些樂器需要同時間演奏，兩隻手是不夠用。這次運用了錄像技術，做到在現場演奏不能達到的效果。總而言之，這是首很有詩意的作品。
這首作品也引伸出我作為現場演奏家身份定位的問題。作為音樂家，詮釋音樂是我的責任，當中需要運用到我身體的限制和可能去演繹不同的作品。但作為為錄像而寫的作品，演繹作品除了演奏外，還要以剪輯、疊錄、後製等去做到作曲家想要的效果。在我收到樂譜後，除了需要熟習樂譜，還要跟第三者，亦即是拍攝團隊去溝通，這對我作為一個現場演奏的音樂家，是種挑戰，當中也有猶疑。演奏這首樂曲，一來在我家拍攝，二來我需要展露自己的樣貌表情，這對我來說是突破了自己固有的界限。
這讓我想起鋼琴家Glenn Gould，在中年後他開始不作現場演出，只專心在錄音室裡錄音，而且還利用錄音技術，逐個聲部錄然後剪輯在一起。當時很多人質疑這是取巧，但他認為這都是詮釋作品的方法之一，也是一種演繹，後來這些錄音成為了經典。此外，這個或許也是疫情帶出來的現象，如疫情初期的Zoom合唱團、樂團、或一個人演繹全部聲部然後利用後製整合成一首作品。在《without mirror...》這首作品中也有類似的精神，但又不像那種一人合唱團錄像般明顯，看得到導演Sander Houtkruijer如何利用鏡頭，給予了些提示當中的聲音是重疊的。我們可以想像，如要作現場演奏，除了你之外，製作錄像的也會是其中的演奏者，他需要跟你一同去詮釋樂譜。
這首作品有ASMR元素，而Alice也很著重於突出每個素材的特點。在我收到樂譜後，我需要跟拍攝團隊解釋逐個小節的內容，作品得以成功呈現，我的拍攝團隊有很大功勞，雖然他們看不懂樂譜，團隊卻需要完全了解每個小節我要做的事情，以及樂譜的指示。
作品錄像中有些鏡頭會聚焦在你的臉、有時會在杯或其他東西，那麼鏡頭都是同一時間拍攝，或是分開拍然後剪輯成一體？
我們是先分開拍攝，例如有一頁樂譜是演奏五次，但五次不同鏡頭，然後再剪輯在一起。作品在我家拍攝，這個也是作品其中一個構思，去反思疫情下我們作為音樂家可以做的事情。整個設計是在我的房間發生，這不是個很大的空間，而這個錄像也是我跟導演一次一對一的對話，而我與作曲家之間又是另一個對話，對我來說這個作品需要大量的溝通，整個過程很著重合作。
聽你這麼形容，作品感覺像首三重奏多於傳統的敲擊獨奏。剛才你提到自己的定位是專注於現場演奏的音樂家，由於疫情我們無法把包括你在內的音樂家帶到香港，於是催生了這個錄像計劃，當你收到我們的邀請去製作一輯錄像作品時，你是如何去選取該把哪些樂曲放到錄像？
當初收到你們的邀請，你們跟我說想錄製一些沒有或很少有錄音或錄像留傳的作品。Isabel Urrutia的《Mara Mara》我多年前已開始演繹這首作品，當中有些段落很像即興。作為音樂家，我經常會跟作曲家合作演繹新作，但同時也有些作品不時就會拿出來演奏，每個演奏家大概都有幾首這類作品，每隔一段時間再次演繹，由於人成熟了，演繹起來好像會有些不一樣。《Mara Mara》就是有這種特質的作品，可以讓演奏者有發揮的空間。
可以談談Sekyo Itoh的作品《Sheep of Ilinks》嗎？這也是首非常獨特的作品，有Morton Feldman很聚焦在某種素材的味道，不是點到即止，而是深入探究到底，是首非常成功的作品。你們是一隊二重奏組合，對嗎？
對，但我們還在摸索合作方向。《Sheep of Ilinks》是首鋼琴與敲擊樂二重奏，由Sekyo自己演繹鋼琴部份，她想透過作品把顫音琴和鋼琴的質料，以及敲打的動作，從兩者的物質出發，在聲音上做到二合為一的效果，這個出發點很具實驗性。
那作品是委約創作，還是純粹出於創作的衝擊？
樂曲並不是首委約作品。收到你們的邀請時，作品大概寫了一半，當時我們還未有確定首演或演出安排，當知道有這個錄像製作時，我二話不說便決定要把作品放到錄像中。
那《Mara Mara》呢？你是否練習這首曲目已有一段時間？像巴赫的《前奏曲及賦格曲》，很多演奏家從小就練習，在人生不同階段有會不同的詮釋和演繹，就像看到不同時期的自己。 你認為《Mara Mara》這首作品是否具有這種特質，讓人看到不同時期的你？
說得對！我第一次學習這首曲目大概是2011年的時候，那時候在德國卡爾斯魯爾音樂學院唸碩士，多年來我跟作曲家Isabel Urrutia不時聯絡，每次演奏這首樂曲會通知她，這次錄影這首作品對我來說無疑是超越了從前自己。
Alejandro Viñao的《Khan Variations》是否跟《Mara Mara》一樣，都是在你的演奏路程上標誌著你的成長的作品？
《Khan Variations》都是在同一個時候開始練習，也是我不時會演奏的作品，每次演奏都會發現不同的演奏方法，如何把結構表達得更清晰等等。把《Khan Variations》、《Mara Mara》、《Sheep of Ilinks》放在一起研究的話，你會發現三首都近乎是主題與變奏的曲式，我是比較喜歡這類會聽得出當中的邏輯、結構的作品。
三首聲音上都是細節精密，不是慣常那種熱熱鬧鬧的敲擊樂作品，感覺很親密，需要近距離去聽去感受，如《Khan Variations》這首木琴獨奏，作品要聽者去聽的似乎是演奏者敲打木琴做出來不同的質感變化，需要細緻的技巧，再加上Alice的作品當中的ASMR配素，這個錄像曲目的選擇，讓人看到敲擊樂細緻的一面，而且這幾首作品也非常適合以錄像方式放到網上播放，如果在一個倘大的音樂廳，樂曲立即會變得很微小，但透過鏡頭及咪高峰近距離欣賞當中的細節，很吸引。再加上樂曲過場時的花絮片段，讓人感到份外親切，不是冷冰冰存檔用的音樂會錄像，這套影片很有個人質感。
談起質感，我不諳風水五行，但對於不同的物質我是比較敏感。這個錄像有木、鐵和其他不同物料，假若全套錄像都是木琴，對我來說木的質感是太多；若我只是演繹顫音琴的作品，聽太多會讓人暈眩。
那是很人性的選擇！這次曲目選擇可以說是恰到好處，首先是兩首木琴作品，聽到很多細緻的音質和音色變化，然後再來是顫音琴，立即有耳目一新的感覺。
我們在討論曲目先後次序時，正就是有這樣的考慮！
剛才談《without mirror…》這首作品，你提及對你作為現場演奏家的定位是種挑戰，在這次疫情相信你或許無法避免會多做了些錄像，經過這兩年多，你對演奏，以及對於自己作為音樂家的身份，有新的看法或定位？
如果不是你們邀請，我也不會想到做個跟ASMR有關、在我家錄製的錄像。作為在音樂會演奏的音樂家，原來我在一個錄像也可以表現得很好，對我來說是更上一層樓。另外，不是只在台上演奏才算是演奏家，在家演奏也可以是藝術家，因為這是作品概念、藝術性的一部份，就是在利用我家找到的物品演奏。這次錄像令我對演奏的看法起了很大的轉變，一直以來我對社交媒體、YouTube等平台抱有懷疑，而我想當中很大的原因是，我會害怕在這些平台裡發現自己不及其他人。如果在一個開放平台，人人都可以把自己的作品放上網，我想沒有人會希望自己的作品沒有人看吧！但經過製作這套錄像，我慢慢放下從前對網上平台的一些偏見。由於疫情，這個計劃由原本現場演出變成了錄像，又或是很多藝術也變了網上發生，這讓我思考藝術家的狀態該是怎樣。作為藝術家，每天醒來很自然就會想做自己熱愛的事，例如繪畫、練琴、跳舞，而我作為敲擊藝術家，在沒有音樂演出，甚至不能去練習室的時候，如何維持我熱衷於做的事情？我相信對很多藝術家來說是基本的需要，而我認為這種精神是可以轉化成Alice嘗試在她的作品實驗的東西。在疫情下，我們會不斷找方法去維持藝術家這種最基本的需要，而這種需要不單是要去表演給很多觀眾看，這只是第二層需要，對我來說最基本的需要是，「I cannot help but play」、「I need to play」，這是作為藝術家該有的態度。因此除了演奏外，我會開始思考如何去記錄創作的過程，這些是我在疫情前沒有想過的。我也沒有想過，其實我的家也可以是個表演舞台，在當中我也可以做音樂家在台上做的事。在疫情期間，互聯網在變成了一個網絡，當演奏家需要一個表演平台，互聯網就充當了這個角色，還刺激了些新的藝術演出，我認為這是很難得的。
